Friday, March 09, 2007

Can I Get a Witness?

700club
HEAL! -- Picture courtesy Wikipedia

by blogSpotter
Why do you believe what you believe? Have always thought it was interesting. I generally divide my knowledge into 3 categories:

1. I believe what I see with my own eyes -- I believe there is a flat screen in front of me, all my sensory feedback tells me so.
2. I believe what appeals to a priori reason -- I believe that 1 + 1 = 2.
3. I believe what sounds reasonable and/or demonstrable. I will not question the weight of an electron, the distance to the moon, or the speed of light. I haven't availed myself of telescopes or other lab equipment to re-establish any of those facts or see it firsthand. I'll take somebody's word for it.

Items 1-3 are pretty easily verified and corroborated by other parties, throughout the world.

This last category is more troubling however
4. I believe what my parents and religious training told me about God.

The religious truths presented by your mother are not especially obvious or demonstrable and many other people throughout the world register disagreement. Since I live in a land of Christendom, I'll take that as the example. Why do you believe that Jesus Christ is 'Lord and Savior?' What is the basis of your original belief? Most people to whom I've posed the question shrug it off:

"It's what I was raised with". "My parents instructed me". "It's the culture we live in".

Have you ever had a dream, vision or supernatural event that made it clear to you? In all but one case of my asking the answer has been "No". My uncle is deeply religious and even studied to be a minister. He does say that Jesus came and spoke to him personally; have never followed up to ask him about the details. There are near death experiences and even religious manias where people can experience almost-real interactions of this sort. Would be interested to know his particular circumstances.

So what pivotal, monumental event caused you to Believe. "If I don't believe, I'll go to Hell". So you were brow-beaten to SAY you believe for conformist reasons? Are you saying it as some kind of insurance policy? What is the reason you accept any particular thing, yea or nay, as an article of faith? Is it because a parent or authority figure told you? I think most people fall under the spell of organized religion because they've been 'witnessed to' by parents and authority figures. It's disturbing because religion has been used as the justification for discrimination, war, slavery, concentration camps and torture. Some of man's most heinous actions are done for 'God' in the name of a 'Good war'. So while someone is drilling a hole in someone else's head (As Iraqis now do to each other) what is the basic logic at work? Someone in the USA might say, "My God is the real God. Jesus is the only way to Salvation". Based on what? Your sacred text, parent's words and religious history are no more persuasive than those of Muslims or Hindus. They have the same influences at work in their societies. What logical construct can possibly break the impasse of "My God's better than your God"?

If something is category 4 knowledge above, I would never use it as a basis for action, much less violent action. There are umpteen religions (and even sub-religions) that ask me to take something as an article of faith. Which do I choose? I believe in God and orderly society just based on knowledge categories 1, 2 and 3 above. No bribes, no threats or implicit exile are necessary. I will believe what I primarily know, and I will admit to not knowing things that are currently unfathomable.

© 2007 blogSpotter

Labels:



8 Comments:

Blogger Rob said...

I'm waiting for a resurgence in "Natural Philosophy"

2:06 PM  
Blogger blogspotter said...

I'm just hoping we get to a point where people get a grip and quit killing each other.

My father used to help me w/ Algebra homework. When I calculated that a train was going 1,000,000 miles an hour, he laughed. "That's a ridiculous answer. You should always ask yourself if your answer is reasonable".

I think people reach equally ridiculous answers w/ religion. If it's telling you to blow yourself up or commit genocide, you've got a miscalculation somewhere.

2:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Matters of faith inherently go beyond the realm of logic. The truth claims of a religion should be logical (i.e., internally consistent, in sync with what we know of the world, etc), but you'll never be able to prove what faith claims about God or the metaphysical world.

We can discuss why *I* believe what I believe, but (1) it's only my personal journey and (2) logic will only take you so far. And this is the positive and negative of religion. The positive is embodied in people like Mothet Teresa and Deitrich Bonhoeffer. The negative is embodied in people like Osama bin Laden and David Koresh.

7:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hear ye', hear ye'. Right on RR!! Amen to that.

People are so full of sh*t when it comes to religion. I know sooo many people who use religion/Christianity as a super absorbent Bounty to wipe up the mess of their lives so that they don't have to face it a fix it themselves. "God's punishing me for ..." Or "God is rewarding me for ..." I know people who go out on Saturday night and find a single man to come home and bang the wife while the husband watches - and then go to church on Sunday. They spend all week holier than thou but on that one night his wife is screaming to me "Oh God, I'm coming again!"

Here's one of the anomalies that have always bothered me: Christianity gives us 9.99 x 10 to the the 99th ways to f yourself and wind up in hell but he provides us only one way to save ourselves? That's how much God loves me? "Dave, I love you so much that I'm going to really stack the odds against you so that you don't stand much of a chance. Good luck my son." Or, "I love you so much here's some rope to go hang yourself with."
Don't think so.

God is like a corvette sitting at a stop light next to a Kia Rio that's revving it's engine. God knows he's so powerful that he doesn't even have to flex his muscle. So when I steal a candy bar, or bang the neighbors wife, I don't think God is worried about my pathetic little self and in need to flex his muscle and punish me for all of eternity. I thought he loved me unconditionally?

Someday future civilizations will look back and laugh at us just like we laugh at the silly Egyptians or Myans and the 'wrong' gods that they choose to worship - and kill over if you didn't. Sounds familiar.

I think every religion started off good until humans got their hands on them and started twisting things to suit their personal whims or power struggles.

"My religion promotes peace and love. And if you don't agree then I'll kill you."

I believe in God, I just don't follow any particular religion. I believe each of our souls and life energy are an actual part of God. Like cells in a body or grains of sand on a beach. Why would God banish me/himself to hell? I don't believe in hell. I think that is a human concoction meant to scare the 'hell' out of us to manipulate us to behave according to someone else's desires. So like RR says I don't believe just as an insurance policy to save myslef. Nor do I go to church on Sunday to wipe up the mess I made Saturday night.

God created the universe, from quantum physics, to the ever expanse, to the emotion of love. Our piddly actions on this speck of a planet doesn't affect much of anything in this universe outside of our atmosphere. We are semi, sort of, self contained idiots. The universe is God, God is the universe. We are just a small part of it, that's all.

Ya'll have a nice day.

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hear ye', hear ye'. Right on RR!! Amen to that.

People are so full of sh*t when it comes to religion. I know sooo many people who use religion/Christianity as a super absorbent Bounty to wipe up the mess of their lives so that they don't have to face it a fix it themselves. "God's punishing me for ..." Or "God is rewarding me for ..." I know people who go out on Saturday night and find a single man to come home and bang the wife while the husband watches - and then go to church on Sunday. They spend all week holier than thou but on that one night his wife is screaming to me "Oh God, I'm coming again!"

Here's one of the anomalies that have always bothered me: Christianity gives us 9.99 x 10 to the the 99th ways to f yourself and wind up in hell but he provides us only one way to save ourselves? That's how much God loves me? "Dave, I love you so much that I'm going to really stack the odds against you so that you don't stand much of a chance. Good luck my son." Or, "I love you so much here's some rope to go hang yourself with."
Don't think so.

God is like a corvette sitting at a stop light next to a Kia Rio that's revving it's engine. God knows he's so powerful that he doesn't even have to flex his muscle. So when I steal a candy bar, or bang the neighbors wife, I don't think God is worried about my pathetic little self and in need to flex his muscle and punish me for all of eternity. I thought he loved me unconditionally?

Someday future civilizations will look back and laugh at us just like we laugh at the silly Egyptians or Myans and the 'wrong' gods that they choose to worship - and kill over if you didn't. Sounds familiar.

I think every religion started off good until humans got their hands on them and started twisting things to suit their personal whims or power struggles.

"My religion promotes peace and love. And if you don't agree then I'll kill you."

I believe in God, I just don't follow any particular religion. I believe each of our souls and life energy are an actual part of God. Like cells in a body or grains of sand on a beach. Why would God banish me/himself to hell? I don't believe in hell. I think that is a human concoction meant to scare the 'hell' out of us to manipulate us to behave according to someone else's desires. So like RR says I don't believe just as an insurance policy to save myslef. Nor do I go to church on Sunday to wipe up the mess I made Saturday night.

God created the universe, from quantum physics, to the ever expanse, to the emotion of love. Our piddly actions on this speck of a planet doesn't affect much of anything in this universe outside of our atmosphere. We are semi, sort of, self contained idiots. The universe is God, God is the universe. We are just a small part of it, that's all.

Ya'll have a nice day.

8:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ooops, I thought I was getting the word verification worng over and over and kept hitting 'post my comment' sorry!

8:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that many a foul thing has been done in the name of "religion". But religion supplies power and thus draws corruption. I think that is why so many despise Christianity. Not b/c of its teachings, but b/c of its history. I'm sure you've heard Mahatma Gandi's saying:

“I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

But, to be fair, other sources of power have "foul deeds". What about wars and killing b/c of politics? Gangs warring to control drug trafficing? Crimes of passion? Etc...

Does those acts make politics bad, or drugs (morphine is also used in hospitals) bad, or love wrong? Obviously not!

Ok, so power drawing corruption is about 1/2 the picture. Say you were someone wanting to discredit Christianity, someone like ... ohhh I don't know ... possibly SATAN! (sorry for the pre-Tina Fey SNL reference there blogspotter :-). What would you do? Start a smeer champaign possibly. Cause high profile leaders to stumble and expose them openly. Dismiss it as old fashioned or try and discredit it scientifically. Attacks from the spirit realm can also "leave a bad taste" in people's mouth.

So I guess what I am saying is that not all things done "in the name of religion" actually reflect (good or bad) on the religion but on the *do-ers* who may (1) misunderstand the teachings, (2) be corrupt and power hungry, or (3) be making a mistake they will regret.

The #1 thing that draws me to God is grace. Grace to forgive my mistakes that I regret. Grace to draw me out of my corrupt and power greedy self. Grace to bear with me until I finally understand the true meaning of those teachings I misapplied. Grace that sends a perfect and holy God out of a perfect and holy place into a miserable, corrupt and screwed up world that would eventually kill him in the most gruesome manner our horrid little brains could imagine. Grace.

And I'm sorry to everyone that I've not extended that same Grace to. But I ask them to forgive me. Maybe I need a little of *their* grace. :-)

Phew ... didn't think I'd say that much when I clicked reply! :) Bring the subject up a lunch sometime, I promise not to put a gun to your head until you agree w/ my views. :-p

4:39 PM  
Blogger blogspotter said...

Cow-worker, you make good points about the power of religion and what it does for you personally.

BUT you still haven't answered the orginal question -- where did your belief originate? Why do you believe in Jesus and not some other messianic figure?

9:55 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home